Episode 2 of “What d’you mean you don’t brush it?” The podcast about curly and wavy hair.

Join us as Lauren and Dylan dive deeper into The Curly Person Method (CPM).

Today we discuss heat. Is curly/wavy hair forever condemned to being “air-dried” or is it in fact ok to use heat? If ok, then how hot is too hot? (Let’s be honest, the fact that we even discuss this part probably tells you what we think.)

We review the product Aveda Nutri-Plenish Leave-in Conditioner.

There are further listeners’ questions, where this week we tackle a biggy; the ubiquitous protein-moisture balance. What are they and is there even a balance?

This is all rounded-off with our one cool thing, which could be curly hair related, but probably won’t be.

Dylan @thecurlpusher

Lauren @lovecurlyhair_lauren

Ways to listen

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Episode Transcript

DYLAN – What do you mean you don’t brush it? 

LAUREN – The podcast about curly and wavy hair with me Lauren from Love Curly Hair 

DYLAN – And me Dylan Bray

LAUREN – Welcome to today’s episode. Today we’re focusing on heat. How hot is too hot for hair tools and hair dryers? And what does the Curly Person Method actually say about using heat on curly hair? We’ll then spotlight the product Aveda Nutri-Plenish Leave-in Conditioner and after that it’s over to you guys for listeners’ questions followed by something that might be curl-related or might just be one cool thing

DYLAN – But who are we to be telling you this? Lauren, who are you? 

LAUREN – I’m a curly hair blogger 

DYLAN – And I’m a hairdresser who specialises in curly hair. Now, who are you? 

LAUREN – You’re probably somebody who has curly hair. You may be the parent of someone with curly hair, you might work with curly hair, or perhaps you’re here by accident

DYLAN – Whoever you are, you’re here for answers. So let’s get started

L – Let’s start today’s episode with a look at heat. Is it OK to use heat on curly hair? And if not, why not? Where does this idea of not using heat come from? And do we need to look back at the Curly Person Method? 

D – OK, so just a reminder, the Curly Person Method is like the Curly Girl Method, but not as sexist CPM

L – OK, so the Curly Person Method generally says that we shouldn’t be using any heat at all on curly hair. And actually, having a quick look back at the book, the only thing it says you’re allowed to do is to use a travel hair dryer, which I thought was quite interesting. If you have to use heat, apparently it’s OK to use a travel hair dryer because the heat is so much weaker

D – The heat is weaker?

L – The heat is not as hot!

D – So Lauren, where do you think this comes from in the Curly Person Method? CPM

L – I think it’s to do with keeping your hair in good condition, isn’t it? So not letting your hair dry out by applying heat to it

D – I think it’s really important to look where this idea has come from and to realise where this idea has come from. You probably need to look back at the origins of the Curly Person Method, which is what?

L – The Curly Person Method is a reaction to the way that people have typically styled their hair. So I think as a bit of a backlash against people using straighteners on their curly hair and wands and all these different tools. It says that you should just cold turkey, just stop using heat. And I think that’s one of the reasons why they say not even to use a diffuser

D – I think you’re absolutely right. I think the Curly Person Method was pure reaction. It was pure reaction against people walking around with heat styled hair, straightened hair, like the hair of the early 2000s where GHDs just took over the world. People have gone, OK, it’s all about hydration, so therefore you can’t use heat at all

L – Yeah

D – And that is a very good and a very typical reaction. But does it work in the real world? 

L – Who’s got time to air dry their hair? 

D – Well, so by not using heat, what they’re suggesting is that you air dry. Now, there’s a few problems with air drying hair, um, mainly friction, because it’s very hard to keep a precise curl when you’re air drying. If you’re going about your daily activities, there’s a lot of potential for the hair to be exposed to a lot of friction, whether it’s you putting your hands through it, just running around

L – You certainly can’t go out while it’s air drying, because any kind of any wind, any disturbance at all. You have to just be indoors in one position

D –  Indoors in one position for potentially 

L – Good few hours I would say 

D – Days

L – Days 

D – I mean you need a lockdown. But one of the obvious other things about this is surely the temperature of the heat. For example a Dyson, if you were to use it with a diffuser on a low heat, the first setting is actually 60 degrees Celsius, which I think it’s quite hot anyway

L – I was thinking that does feel quite hot 

D – A lot of the time when I’m diffusing clients, particularly around the ear, they will always go “it’s too hot”

L – Yeah, absolutely. I agree

D – Too hot and they have to cover their ears. So the question is. How hot is damaging? 

L – Well, I’ve read that basically 185 degrees is the optimum temperature for heat styling your hair when 

D – Optimum?

L – Optimum. When what I think they’re really saying is that’s the most heat you can get away with. Anything over that, you’re starting to, you can crack the cuticle, you can cause permanent damage. But up to that point, apparently that’s OK

D – I looked that up as well, and according to the Belgravia Centre, that was the maximum you could use in your hair before it starts to cause damage. Now there is always a level of damage being caused. I always say to my clients, I turn on the Dyson

L – Yeah

D – And I put the diffuser on and it’s on low setting and it’s on the low speed. And I put it on the back of the hand and I’ll leave it there and I go, can you tolerate that? Yeah, that’s fine. So then I say, OK, now imagine putting a GHD on your hand and they instinctively withdraw. And yeah, so if it’s going to burn your skin, it’s going to burn your hair, even though they’re not made of the same thing

L – I have a scar on my forehead from a wand

D – Wow 

L – That I had a bit of an accident with

D – Harry Potter’s wand?

L – Yeah

D – Really?

L – I used to use a wand. Yeah. Before I fully embraced the natural curl pattern, and I accidentally touched my forehead with it one day

D – For how long?

L – And I still have a tiny scar. I mean, you know, a second, not long at all. I mean that shows you 

D – That really shows you

L – But it didn’t stop me. Interestingly 

D – Well eventually it did

L – Eventually well, not for that reason, but yeah. I mean, but like you said, that’s the perfect example, isn’t it? It’s way too hot for your skin. But you’re happily keep using it on

D – You’re gonna put it on your hair

L – Yeah 

D – But you’ve got to think about what you want from your hair. So if you’re going to air dry your hair, if you prep the hair correctly, you are probably going to get amazing curls. You’re arguably going to get no volume

L – Yeah

D – It’s going to be very flat to the head. And this is what some people want. For most people, they want a bit of body, they want a bit of shape, they want the curl kind of to be dried into the hair

L – Do you ask your clients this kind of question? Do you know whether people tend to air dry on the whole or tend to diffuse? 

D – Always 

L – Diffuse? 

D – No, I always ask them and I never listen to the answer. No I always ask them, most people do a combo, you know. I mean because diffusing take, one of the really strange things is when people are transitioning, they go, I can’t wait, it’s going to take me no time at all and you go ohh God 

L – I think the key is if you are going to diffuse and it is definitely worth considering some kind of heat protection on your hair. So that’s sort of a way to get around it. So if you are 

D – Absolutely

L – You know pretty much trying to follow Curly Person Method

D – CPM

L – But maybe you want to diffuse, a good way to to protect your hair would be to use some sort of spray or heat protection 

D – Which is amazing because I think that brings us almost seamlessly onto our next section which is Lauren

L – Our product of the week. Our product is the Aveda Nutri-Plenish Leave-in Conditioner and Dylan I know you encouraged me to buy this product, so sell it to me again. You did encourage me to buy it

D – That’s true

L – I bought it from you. I literally bought it from you. I was just trying to be polite, but I bought it

D – Well, it’s cos I cut your hair for free

L – I know, right? I felt like I had to

D – OK. So Lauren, how did you first come across this product? 

L – Really?

D – Let’s be open and say that the first time we ever met and I cut your hair, I actually sold you this product

L – You did. You actually did

D – So that’s how you first came across it

L – That is exactly how I came across it. Yeah, I’d never heard of it before 

D – I first came across this product pre-pandemic and this was the product that I’ve been waiting for and that’s quite big

L – Yeah. That’s a big deal 

D – So

L – Can I ask you something? 

D – Yeah

L – If it’s the product you’ve been waiting for, what was the gap? 

D – Hydration. Hydration at this level

L – OK

D -Now the Aveda Nutri-Plenish Leave-in Conditioner is a spray in

L – Yeah

D – And I think that is key. And the reason that is key is because it has to be light enough to go into a spray. But as soon as you spray it on anybody’s hands and they rub it in  – two sprays, they really can’t believe how hydrating it feels right for something so light. And another thing that is great about the spray is the fact that you can use it as a refresh

L – Yes, absolutely

D – How did you find the product, Lauren? 

L – I really like it and I must admit I like it because it’s a spray as well. My previous leave-in conditioner was a cream, which I did really like, but I must say I’ve noticed a difference using a spray. I’d say from the hydration point of view it’s kind, it’s similar, but I do really like that it comes in the spray

D – What were you using before?

L – I was using Noughty leave-in conditioner, which I am still a really big fan of

D – Yeah, a lot of people are

L – I must admit I really out of all of their products, I think their leave-in conditioner is fantastic, but if I’m really going for volume then I think the leave-in conditioning spray is really excellent

D – So let’s start with the packaging. How have you found the packaging? 

L – I found it good. I like it. I really like the colour

D – Now Aveda claim it’s recyclable plastic

L – Recyclable?

D – Recyclable

L – OK

D – Yeah, not recycled. Recyclable. The question is how often can you recycle plastic? 

L – I’ve just noticed what it does say at the bottom, 100% post consumer HDPE bottle. I don’t know what that means, but that sounds like it’s been recycled already

D – I think it.. Oh OK and it’s recyclable again, excluding pump

L – Yeah

D – That can’t be that easy to recycle. So I would hope it gets better, but if it’s recycled and recyclable, that’s probably as good as you’re going to get at the moment. Erm, it’s a good colour and it’s incredibly pink

L – It’s very pink

D – It’s seriously pink. I mean, the whole Nutri-Plenish range is pretty pink and there’s 2 shades of pink. There’s a deeper pink, which is for a much more hydrating. It’s actually a heavier product. It’s probably something that you will use on more African hair. And then the lighter product is something that you would use on wavy to curly

L – Yeah

D – And because this one has both on, it has the lighter pink and the darker pink. I’m guessing it’s telling us that you can use it on all of them. I can’t remember a client at last did without using this

L – Really?

D – Yes. It doesn’t feel heavy at all

L – No, no not at all

D – You can’t overuse it

L – Yeah, I must admit I’ve got through my bottle very quickly because I do tend to, I do tend to spray a fair bit on

D – I think I go through a bottle every three days

L – Really?

D – Yeah. No question. Now, in terms of instructions of how to use on the bottle. How did you find that? 

L – Yeah, good. I mean, I would say I’m pretty much doing what it says, misting it on clean, damp hair. Um, yeah

D – Good

L – There’s not much on there

D – No. Well, that’s that is one of the things about Aveda. That was one of the reasons I said this, because I find Aveda, they rely on you probably doing a bit more further research online. There’s not a lot of information there. You have to go scurrying off and find the information somewhere else

L – Is that because the products are so good or they have so much faith in their products that you almost can’t go wrong, or you don’t think that’s why

D – I don’t think you can have too much faith in your product

L – How do you think you could go wrong with this product? If the instructions are fairly basic as they are, do you think there’s any way you could go wrong?

D – Putting out the root

L – Do you think so? Would you not? I always do

D – No, no, I mean but over putting it at the root. OK. So in terms of what we were talking about before heat, I think this is a really important product

L – It has heat protection all the way up to 230 degrees, which is way more than you know almost every heated tool in fact I think so it’s maxing out on the heat protection

D – So this is. One of the great things about, let’s call it the applied Curly Person Method as opposed to the Curly Person Method is that suddenly you’re using products that have a heat protector in. So this is something where you can modify

L – Well, it’s interesting as well because if we’re looking at the ingredients, it’s actually Curly Person Method approved

D – That is true

L – So you.. it’s almost like they designed it that way you can use it in conjunction with the Curly Person Method

D – Do you think they have done that? 

L – I don’t know. I feel like that’s because they could have easily popped silicones in it or something like that. I think maybe they’re aware of how many people are trying to follow it

D – Also, it’s 98% naturally derived

L – Yeah

D – I mean, that is high. So that’s gotta be a plus. Yeah. And one of the other things that it boasts, which all the Aveda products boast really, is that the manufacturing of them is 100% solar powered. So that’s pretty impressive

L – That’s impressive

D – Yeah, that’s really good

L – While we’re talking about the benefits, it also has a UV filter in it

D – Tell us about UV filters

L – It’s just so damaging. It’s similar to when we were making the point before about using heat on your hair and how you would apply heat to your hair in a way that you wouldn’t on your skin. And you think about how protective we are over our skin and how we’re always applying UV protection, and then very few people would take the time to do the same thing on their hair. I think it’s something that should be more widely available and really important and really good that this has

D – I think it’s great that this has

L – Yeah

D – Fantastic. So who would you recommend this for? 

L – I mean, I would say pretty much everybody, to be honest. I think all yeah, as you said before, all hair types. I don’t think you can go wrong with it. Wavy, curly, straight, everybody, every hair type I think would benefit from this

D – And the price point is a bit of a sticker

L – Yeah

D – It’s not cheap

L – It’s not cheap, particularly when you’re going through as quickly as we said before

D – So it retails at 28 pounds, which is, you know, it’s a serious bit of dough. But I think if you can try this, obviously it is a premium priced product. Maybe if you just use it once a week or once every two weeks and you’re going to notice a difference 

L – I think they should bring out a mini one 

D – Do you think so? That’s really interesting that you say that, because I was thinking they need to bring out a bigger one. And we had a trial size would be great

L – Both yeah

D -I mean how long would the trial size last? 

L – I know, but 

D – As long as this sentence

L – I think when products are that expensive, I think mini one because I noticed they do in some of the other other parts of their range, they have the trial sizes and I bought a couple of them before they do last of little while

D – Yeah, you can’t, I don’t think you can get this as a sample from Aveda either

L – Not at the moment 

D – That’s a shame. Yeah. OK. So if you’re listening Aveda, trial size and bigger and bigger size. And if they could all fit inside each other like a Russian doll that would be great. You know, for Christmas. So big question. Following on from last week where we had a little difference of opinion with the Curlsmith, you gave it six out of ten, I gave it seven out of ten. What would you give this out of ohh? Bearing in mind that if you remember, I did say last week that is very rare for anything to get over eight out of ten just because of the diversity of curly hair. What would you give this out of ten? 

L – So I can’t say nine?

D – Of course you can say whatever you like. Would you go nine? 

L – I was thinking, I was thinking nine

D – Wow

L – I mean, the only fault was not fault. The only thing is, it is very. expensive Yeah, apart from that, I don’t think I could find a fault with it

D – Fantastic. And she’s looked 

L – And I’ve looked. I have no, I have no problem with have no gripes at all

D – So nine out of ten

L – Yeah. Let’s do it

D – Excellent. Yeah

L – What would you give it? 

D – I would also give it nine

L – There we go

D – There you go, eighteen out of twenty, nine of out of ten, whichever is easier for you. Fantastic

L – Next up, we have listeners’

D – I’m not ready!

L – Next we have listeners’ questions or I should say question. This week’s is from Donna who’s in Birmingham in the UK and she has just said “protein and moisture. How? Why?” It’s a big question 

D – Wow

L – Yeah

D – Protein and moisture. How? Why? I think we’re talking about the balance here. Are we? 

L – Yes, I think that 

D – This is a big thing in the curly world. Protein and moisture, how much to have of each. Why, when, what do they do? OK, so is it a balance? 

L – I don’t see it as a balance as in. I think your hair needs both, but I’m not sure I would call it a balance because I’m not sure that one necessarily affects the other. Do you see it that way? So I think if you have too much protein, I’m imagining a seesaw in my head. If you have too much protein

D – Yeah

L – Do you balance it out with more moisture? Is that how to correct that? Or if you have too much moisture, by adding protein, does that somehow lessen? I just, I’m not sure. I don’t know. The word balance I think is a little bit misleading

D – I think it is because it implies always more. Never less. 

L – Yeah

D – So it’s like, if you’ve got a guy who’s hungry, you feed him. But then he’s thirsty because the food was quite salty. So then you give him some more. Yeah. Water. Yeah. And then he’s a bit hungry again. Yeah. Give him more food. And then more water. And then more food, more water. At some point, he’s gotta stop eating, otherwise he’s gonna burst. 

L – Yeah. I think you’re better off taking these two things separately and realizing that hair needs both

D – So if we’re going to do that, which do you think is the most misunderstood? Of the two

L – I feel like protein doesn’t get the attention that moisture gets. So I think all the focus is on moisture, isn’t it? Most curly hair products, they talk about moisture not as much on the protein

D – I mean, I think it’s harder to understand what protein is, what it does and why

L – Yeah, absolutely

D – Because I think I agree with you with the protein moisture balance. I think they can be taken separately. Talk me through what you would imagine her to be like without protein or not without protein because it’s made-up of protein, but that lacks protein

L – It’s to do with the strength of the hair. So I think you’re gonna have weaker hair, brittle hair. There’s tensile strength, isn’t it? This is what comes from the protein 

D – Hair that lacks protein is stringy. You do the protein test, don’t you? 

L – Yeah, yeah

D – You see the elasticity, and it’s stringy. It’s not brittlE, it’s more broken

L – I think I just have an image in my head and 

D – What is the image?

L – Just kind of cracked and like it would break easily

D – Right, ok

L – I guess the idea is that strength.. If it’s stringy, you would break when you pull it

D – But that’s not brittle

L – It’s not brittle, no

D – Because if something’s brittle. It’ll snap her without protein is. It’s very weak, like hair that lacks moisture, is obviously very dry and can be quite brittle. Yeah, hair that lacks protein tends to be quite stringy. It goes quite meshy. It’s like if anybody’s ever had too many chemicals on their hair and the hair goes on with a little bit chewing gummy or webs at the end, this is her that lacks protein. And the main reason that this is so important to her is because hair is effectively protein. 

L – Yeah

D – It’s, it’s. Keratin, it’s, it’s made of protein

L – So if hair is made-up from protein, what does that look like in terms of the actual structure of the hair itself? 

D – Yeah, that’s interesting. OK, so hair is made-up of keratin, which is the protein. Now, what that actually is, it’s all long coiled chains, which are called polypeptide chains, and these are held together by links and bonds. And there’s two types of different bonds. There’s the disulfide bonds and these are the permanent bonds and these are the things that are broken by chemicals. And then you have the hydrogen bonds and salt links, and these are the temporary bonds and these are broken during heat styling. Now they’re temporary because there can be reversed by moisture

L – Right 

D – Whereas the disulfide bonds are permanent and they can only be reversed by protein. So what protein does is it temporarily fills the cracks in the cuticle

L – So when you say that the protein you can add back into your hair is temporary

D – Yeah

L – If you’re going to do a protein treatment, it’s something that you need to do quite regularly 

D – Yeah. I mean, you’re often advised to do 1 between every four to six weeks

L – OK

Because that is probably around the time that protein will stay in there and will kind of come out again. Yeah

L – So I do a gelatin treatment

D – And how do you make that up? 

L – With jelly

D – With jelly

L – Yeah

D – So that’s an animal derived

L – Actual animal derived product because the protein that is in your hair, the keratin, there isn’t anything like it. The best kind of protein for adhering to the protein that’s already in your hair is another kind of animal protein

D – And will that will stay in longer than a plant protein?

L – So you’re more likely to replace lost protein by using an animal derived protein

D – OK

L – But there are plenty of plant derived proteins that also work well

D – Of course. And what do you notice about your hair when you’ve done that? 

L – If I’m honest, it doesn’t feel any different

D – Do you think that is because you’re somebody who doesn’t particularly lack protein? 

L – It could be, but then I have very porous hair. Maybe because I do it fairly regularly. I don’t notice

D – Yeah

L –  It doesn’t feel that different

D – OK

L – But I do feel like my hair…

D – Do you remember the first time you did it? 

L – Yeah. My main memory from that is just having a really sticky neck. Yeah, yeah, forget I said that

D – No, I think we should keep that it in

L – It’s so true, though. Anybody that’s not a gelatin treatment, I think it’s so sticky

RIVER – But you genuinely just got jelly that you bought from the shop?

L – Yeah

R – Just put it in your hair?

L – Literally. It’s a sachet, right? Not like the jelly cubes. So I think it’s something that looks like Angel delight on the front of the sachet anyway. But it’s really sticky

D – Right. OK. And for our younger listeners, Angel delight is something we used to eat in the 70s. OK. So you just touched on something very interesting there when you said my hair is porous

L – Yeah

D – So are we saying that porosity equals a lack of protein? 

L – The two things are related, yeah, for sure. So high porosity hair is more likely to need protein to help with the structure. Low porosity hair can also benefit from protein, but it’s not going to take on as much. It’s not going to be as lacking in protein

D – And at this moment we would like to introduce our friend River because he has a very good question, which is a follow up on Donna’s question. River

R – I was just wondering what a good source of a protein treatment would be 

D – Gelatin? 

R – Besides Angel Delight

D – Lauren, that is a very good question because a lot of people will not know that. Yeah, what is a good source of protein for hair other than Angel Delight? 

L – So there are lots of plant derived proteins that you can use. So pea protein, for example, is a really good one. There’s also rice, quinoa, trying to remember…

D – Wheat

L – Wheat protein. Absolutely. The thing to remember, if you’re using a plant protein, it needs to be hydrolyzed. So if you’re looking on an ingredients list, it has to be a hydrolyzed protein. And what that means is that the molecules have been broken down so they are sufficiently small enough to actually penetrate the hair. So these plant proteins are generally too big to penetrate the cuticle, and they need to be broken down into the smaller constituent parts in order to be able to do that. So hydrolyzed quinoa protein, for example

D – And if they’re not hydrolysed, I’m guessing they’re sitting on the hair

L – Something like yogurt is a really good example. It’s quite common to see people using yogurt in a hair mask, you make up your own hair mask, and you put yogurt or egg on your hair and the molecules are just too big. It might add a bit of shine, but it’s not really going to add any protein That’s why buying a product with a hydrolyzed smaller molecule of protein in it is going to be much better for your hair than making up your own mask with eggs or yogurt, for example

D – You say that it may add shine

L – Hmm

D – Is that just because it’s not penetrating the hair and it’s only repairing the cuticle? 

L – I’m not sure. I’ve heard the egg in a hair mask can make your hair shiny, and in my head I’m imagining basting something with it, but I’m not 100% sure how that actually works in reality

D – Well, if anybody at home knows that. If you’d like to get in touch, we’re always here to learn

R – I’ve seen people put avocado in 

L – Avocado. Yeah, yeah, more for moisture. There are lots of recipes, aren’t there in the Curly Person Method handbook for treatments you can make at home. Sure, one of them got avocado in it 

D – It will have. Mashed avocado. I mean where was that 15 years ago? Now look at it. Taking on the world

L – Yeah. Can I just say I have done that and again…I wouldn’t

D – Sticky neck?

R – Waste of avocado?

L – Waste of avocado. Absolutely

D – Avocado flavoured Angel Delight. 

L – Ohh gosh. I was finding avocado for so long afterwards. It just it goes everywhere. It’s really difficult. These things seem like a great idea at the time

R – Sticky neck? 

L – Sticky neck

D – I wonder who the first person to look at an avocado. I’m gonna, I’m going to mash that up and stick up my put it on my head. Yeah, yeah, that makes sense. So Donna, I’m not convinced that anyone answered anywhere near anything of your question there, but hey, we tried. Please keep your questions. Come in. You can send them in to us on Instagram @lovecurlyhair_lauren or @boy_meets_curl

D – OK, so Lauren, what next? Actually, I don’t want to say what next. It’s too future focused. Lauren, what now? And very present these days

L – Next we have.. Now. Now it’s time for our one cool thing this week

D – Ohh, and if you don’t know, this is something that me and Lauren have come across and we think it’s worth talking about. It may be hair related, it probably won’t be. But Lauren, what is your one cool thing this week? 

L – My one cool thing this week is one of my I’ve just picked one of my favourite things. I’m going to go straight in with lamp-posts

D – Lamp-posts? 

L – Yeah

D – OK 

L – Yeah, specifically really old looking Victorian style lamp-post gas lamp posts. If I see a really good one, I have to take a picture of it. I just love them

L –  Tell us more. I think. I think it’s related to Narnia. It took me a long time to realise where this obsession had come from, but I think it’s from Narnia

D – What’s the connection between a lamp-post and Narnia? What is Narnia? 

L – Oh my goodness

D – Never assume prior knowledge

L – I’m never going to do it justice. And I haven’t read the books for such a long time, but the Chronicles of Narnia, The Lion, The witch, and The Wardrobe specifically. And there’s a lamp-post in the middle of the woods and they meet there. I think that’s the first thing they see when they go through the wardrobe and they see all the snow and there’s a lamp-post and it just becomes a beacon of… I’m sure it’s symbolic and it’s really beautiful

D – And that’s where your love of lamp-posts came from? And that would explain why it’s like a gas Victorian lamp-post 

L – Yeah, has to be that that specific style, not, not the modern… It’s not just any street lighting

D – A concrete one

L – Yeah. It’s got to be beautiful

D – Motorway

L – I love a motorway. Yeah, I mean, I’ve got to take a picture of every one

R – Hours of fun

D – Now where’s your perfect place for lamp-posts? 

L – I’ve seen some great ones. I mean, London is perfect. There’s there’s a lot of good lamp-posts around London. I actually found out that one of the street that I grew up on was one of the first streets to have gas lighting

D – Really?

L – Yeah, isn’t that interesting? 

D – That is

L – I don’t get that fact out often because it’s boring

D – Well, I’m glad you saved it for this podcast

R – You just said that was interesting and then followed it up with that was really boring 

L – To me that’s really interesting, but it’s not something that I tell people often

D – I think that is a great one cool thing. 

L – Next time you see a really beautiful lamp-post

D – Think of Lauren

L – Think of me. Send me a picture

D – On Instagram

L – Yeah

D – It used to be about about curly hair. Now it’s about lamp-posts

L – Dylan what’s your one cool thing this week? 

D – So my one cool thing is rucking

L – Pardon?

D – That’s right

L – What? What’s rucking? 

D – OK, so rucking is walking with a rucksack

L – Ohh 

D – The person who kind of came up with this idea was looking at the armed forces, and trying to work out why they’re fitter than everybody else

L – Yeah

D – And they realized what they did was they marched with weights

L – Ok

D – And so this fledgling fitness lifestyle was born

L – Yeah

D – Which is called rucking, and I’ve started doing it about two months ago. You can get special rucking rucksacks. They’re seriously expensive. So if I’m still doing it in a month, I might get one of these. But at the moment I’m marching around with dictionaries on my back. It’s very unusual because it is both strength based and cardiovascular

L – Wow

D – And what is also amazing for is posture because if you get the right rucksacks, yeah, it’s very good for your core and it is just delightful

L – Wow. If you buy the specific rucking rucksack, does it have weight built into it already? Is that the idea? 

D – Well, because they’re very clever, they sell the weight separately. Because yeah, yeah, if you’re like a gentleman of a certain age and your knees are starting to go and you can’t run as far as you used to and it’s really good because it is low impact, I see. So you get all the benefits and strength and it is just ace. It’s a great way to start the day 

L – Does it not make your shoulders hurt? I’m just imagining it and my shoulders…

D – If you have a rucksack like mine, which is so badly equipped for it, yeah, it’s terrible. I mean

L – OK, yeah

D – I mean, you know, my chiropractor bills have gone up astronomically. But no, it doesn’t because it’s all situated correctly and it’s straight down. It’s great. It’s a great thing to do for all you runners out there. I’m starting Park Ruck. I’m not, but it’s just come to me and I am doing that. All right, Regent’s Park. We’ll go see a few lamp-posts. It’s going to be Ace. So those were one cool thing. Don’t be fooled that there were two of them and that’s it for this week

L – So. Dylan, thank you so much for hosting and allowing me to be your co-host on What do you mean you don’t brush it? If you enjoyed today’s episode, don’t forget to like and subscribe and review. Tell your friends, tell strangers. And don’t forget to mention the Curly Person Method CPM

D – And remember you can get us all your favourite places that you get your podcasts from and from selected newsstands. We’ll see you next week. When… Doesn’t say anything else on the paper… When Lauren will be teaching us how to take CO2 out of the atmosphere and put it in a fire extinguisher