Episode 1 of “What d’you mean you don’t brush it?” The podcast about curly and wavy hair.

Heard of The Curly Girl Method? Don’t really know what it is?

That’s fine! In this, the very first episode of the hit podcast “What D’you Mean You Don’t Brush It?”, Lauren and Dylan introduce you to the Curly Girl Method, and then rename it; The Curly Person Method (CPM)
CPM- The three big rules: what are they, and (importantly) do they make sense?
We talk sulphates and silicones; do you know what they do?

There’s a product review of Curlsmith, Curl Defining Styling Souffle (say that drunk).

Listeners’ questions answered including, how do you get volume at the roots?
And stay tuned to hear Dylan repeatedly mispronounce the title of Susannah Clarke’s novel Piranesi.

Lauren Olivia @lovecurlyhair_lauren
Dylan Bray @thecurlpusher

Ways to listen

Listen on Apple Podcasts

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Episode Transcript

DYLAN – What do you mean you don’t brush it? 

LAUREN – The podcast about Curly and wavy hair with me Lauren from Love Curly Hair 

DYLAN – And me Dylan Bray

LAUREN – Welcome to our very first episode. Today we’re starting right at the beginning and we’re looking at, and for some of you maybe even introducing, the Curly Girl Method. We’ll then spotlight the product Curlsmith Curl Defining Styling Souffle and after that it’s over to you guys for listeners’ questions followed by something that might be curl related or might just be one cool thing

DYLAN – But who are we to be telling you all this, Lauren? Who are you? 

LAUREN – I’m a curly hair blogger. Yes, that’s a thing now

DYLAN – And I’m a hairdresser who specialises in curly hair. But curly hair blogging? What does that entail? 

LAUREN – It entails a lot of research, a lot of experimenting, learning about products, ingredients and addressing the big questions that surround curly hair. Dylan, tell me about being a curl specialist



DYLAN – Ok, so I’ve been a hairdresser for 30 years, man and boy. Probably about 15 years ago I suddenly realised that most of my clientele was curly. So I started looking into that more and more, discovered the Curly Girl Method, went on training courses, and pretty much now deal exclusively with curly hair day in, day out. Now dear listener, who are you? 

LAUREN – You are probably somebody who has curly hair. You might be the parent of somebody with curly hair. You might work with curly hair, or perhaps you’re here by accident

DYLAN – Whoever you are, you’re here for answers

LAUREN – That’s why today we are introducing you to the Curly Girl Method

DYLAN – The what? 

LAUREN – The Curly girl Method

DYLAN – Curly girl. That’s a bit sexist, isn’t it? 

LAUREN – That’s a good point, from here on end we’ll be talking about the Curly Person Method 

DYLAN – CPM. Because if you only take one thing away from today’s episode, we want it to be that men can have curly hair too. Isn’t that right, Brian May? Give it a bit of context. Brian May is Adam Lambert’s granddad

D – What’s first on today’s episode, Lauren? 

L – Well, let’s start today’s episode with a look at the Curly person Method 

D – CPM. Now, for a lot of people, you’re gonna know what the Curly Person Method is, even though we’ve literally just coined that phrase. Can you tell us a little bit about it, Lauren? 

L – So the Curly Person Method is a set of guidelines that were originally designed by Lorraine Massey in her book Curly Girl The Handbook. But it’s essentially a set of guidelines to follow when you’re starting your curly journey, and it involves the products that you use and the methods that you use to style your hair. It also includes how to cut your hair. Lots of rules, lots to think about

D – Now here’s the interesting thing, if you’re not familiar with the Curly Person Method or the Curly Girl Method formerly known as 


D – Exactly is it really changed the game. I mean, this is like year dot. This is Genesis. This is what everything is kind of based on. When we think about curly hair. Now, we’ve tried to kind of extract the essence of it and we actually took this from a very recent interview with Lorraine in Newsweek magazine. She basically tried to make it as concise and as clean as possible and she actually said there was probably about 3 rules that you needed to follow. So Lauren over to you with rule one

L – So rule number one was no brushes or combs should be used on your hair. 

D – No brushes to be used on your hair

L – Somebody should name a podcast after that

D – I think there are so many reasons why you wouldn’t brush curly hair that it’s actually easier to ask why would you brush it? 

L – If you’re brushing curly hair, what are you trying to achieve? 

D – That is the perfect question because it’s almost like if you asked anybody why they would brush it, I reckon 9 out of 10 would say because you’ve just got to brush it. This is a learnt behaviour from people with straight hair

L – Yeah

D – There is no reason to brush curly hair. And if we look at this as if it’s trench warfare, in one trench you’ve got the curly haired people and the other trench you’ve got the straight haired people. Now the most dangerous place in trench warfare, and I’m talking from experience, is no man’s land. Now, if you’re in the curly hair camp trench, but you’re trying to treat your hair like it’s straight hair, you’re kind of wandering into no man’s land. It’s neither straight nor curly. It’s all over the place. It’s dangerous. You are going to die. Now let’s look at the 2nd

L – So the second one that we picked out was to cleanse, not wash your hair. And I thought this one was really interesting because when I first read that, I wasn’t entirely sure what she was getting at. What fundamentally is the difference, why are you cleansing and not washing? 

D – So I think the point here is don’t use shampoo. It’s really important at this kind of fundamental level to talk about the difference between shampoo and cleanser 

L – In the context of what I know about the Curly Person Method 

D – CPM 

L – Cleanser, I am talking to mean a co-wash rather than what we would traditionally call a shampoo

D – And for our listeners at home, what’s a co-wash? 

L – A co-wash is a conditioning cleanser. So it 

D – Is that what the ‘co’ stands for? 

L – Yeah

D – Really?

L – Yeah 

D – I thought it was just a team activity. Now, we’re into semantics here, but why is it not called co-cleanser? 

L – That’s an excellent point. I’ve never thought about it like that

D – I haven’t either. No. It’s amazing what comes to you when you’re under horrendous pressure

L – So the idea of the co-wash is that it has much gentler cleansing agents within it

D – One of the characteristics of curly hair is it’s naturally finer and naturally drier than straight hair. So you’ve got to be very careful not to over cleanse because you don’t want to be stripping the natural oils out of the hair because they’re one of the things that give the hair hydration, which is really important for curly hair. A lot of people with wavy or curly hair have oily scalps and dry hair

L – That’s interesting. Just made me think as well of those silicone sort of massage brushes almost being used on your scalp. I’ve not actually tried one, but I know that they’re they’re very popular now, aren’t they? It’s the action of moving that over your scalp that’s dislodging everything and cleaning it

D – My worry about that would be that it’s kind of like using a brush on wet hair, and you might tear the hair because, yeah, particularly with curly hair, it’s in a lot more of a fragile state when it’s wet. So. Lauren, the next point? What was the next point? I think it’s something that we’ve already touched on, but it was 

L – The next point she made was making sure the products you use are sulfate and silicone free

D – Now that’s interesting because I think because we work within this field so much, there are words that are thrown about so often that everybody goes, oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. But I think it’s worth stopping and actually exploring. What are they like? Pretend I don’t know anything. What’s a sulfate?

L – A sulfate is the cleansing agents in a shampoo

D – OK, and why is that bad? 

L – So there are different levels of cleansing agents. Sulfates in particular tend to be at the more aggressive end of a cleanser, and that’s why they’re generally considered to be a bad thing, because you don’t need your hair to be cleaned that aggressively, and sulfates have the reputation of generally removing too much natural oil from your hair

D – You say they have the reputation. Is that a fair reputation? 

L – In some cases, so you can break it down even more. So, some sulphates are more aggressive than others

D – Let’s get to the quantum level on this. That’s what that’s what people want

L – Some sulfates are more aggressive than others. I think it’s interesting what you often see on shampoo bottles if you look, is instead of saying sulfate free, they will say SLS and SLES free. They are generally considered the most aggressive sulfates. And what they’re saying is that this shampoo isn’t sulfate free, but it’s free from these two particular sulfates. I’ve actually fallen into the trap before when I was following the Curly Person Method

D – CPM 

of buying a shampoo. That was SLS, SLES free and thinking that meant sulfate free, but it didn’t

D – So those are obviously the aggressive ones. Where else would we find those? Would we find them in household products? 

L – That’s a good question. I’m not sure. It sounds like something you’d scrub your floor with, doesn’t it, if they’re that aggressive? But I must admit I don’t know

D – OK. Let’s just let that up. While I’m doing that, Lauren, could you tell us what they stand for? 

L – Yeah, so SLS stands for Sodium Laurel Sulfate and SLES stands for Sodium Laureth Sulfate

D – And interestingly here, one of the first entries that I see come up is that according to most research, not all, but most, SLS is an irritant. According to a 2015 study, SLS is safe for use in household cleaning products

L – See. That’s concerning, isn’t it? 

D – What was the 2nd? 


D – Is an anionic detergent and surfactant found in many personal care products and in herbicides like Roundup. So that’s probably one reason you shouldn’t be using sulfate. Now let’s talk about silicon. Talk to me about silicones

L – Silicones are rubber like polymers

D – Ohh yeah. What’s a polymer? While Dylan looks that up..

L – Plastic is a rubber like polymer

D – Polymer. Any of the class of natural or synthetic substances composed from very large molecules. That is the key. Ah, OK, so this is something that is not going to penetrate anything. It’s very large molecules, which means it sits on the hair. What’s your personal view of silicones? 

L – I myself am actually quite pro silicone, which I know is controversial

D – It’s not CPM approved

L – It’s not CPM approved. I’ll tell you what it was. It was a little while back. I was doing some research on silicones and one of their main benefits is that they are heat resistant and so they are very useful for protecting your hair from heat. And I don’t know if anybody has ever tried to find a Curly Person Approved heat protector for their hair. It’s virtually impossible. And that’s because silicones are one of the best ways to protect from heat. Very, very difficult to find. A heat protector that hasn’t got silicones in it

D – That’s really enlightening what you’ve just said because we will be exploring the Curly Person Method more


D – CPE? The Curly Person Effect! We will be delving further into the Curly Person Method 


D – Probably week after week, exploring different facets of it, because this is the really big thing for us, another part of the curly person method 


D – I think we should stop doing that

L – It’s gonna catch on

D – I don’t think it will. Actually I think it’s already caught on. I mean, you know, I went to the toilet while you were talking about sulfates and passed a couple of people were saying it but they might have been aking about CPS Crown Prosection Service. One of the things that is obviously part of the Curly Person Method

L – It’s so hard not to say it! 

D – I’m so pleased you didn’t. One of the things is no heat. Now this will be probably something we’ll be talking about next week, but if curly hair is all about hydration, if you’re using a silicone at the end of your routine, how do you get rid of that silicone, are you going to have to use a clarifying shampoo? 

L – Most of the research. I’ve read says that in fact silicones can be removed with most types of cleansers. There’s different categories of silicones, some are more difficult to remove than others, but dimethicone, one of the more common ones, can actually be removed with most cleansers, so you wouldn’t have to do a clarifying shampoo to get rid of it

D – Here’s a question, is it easier to remove that than say, a natural crude oil then like coconut oil or something? 

L – Yeah, that’s interesting isn’t it? If you use something really heavy, like shea butter for example, that can be quite difficult to remove and if you are using a co-wash, for example, but in between that you’re also using shea butter, these things can all build up. So I do think you have to be careful of how you’re cleaning your hair and what you’re using in between, because I think that is a way to block moisture. You’re never fully cleaning it, you’re never fully taking those layers away so that you can hydrate and start again. There is an overlap between what trichologists recommend for the health of your scalp and the best way to cleanse your hair. So it’s recommended for your scalp health that you actually wash your hair every three to four days. That’s actually what’s beneficial. Also, for your hair, in terms of hydrating it, so your hair will gradually lose moisture over the two 3-4 days after you wash it, and that is the optimum time to then wash it, remove the the layers of product that you may have put on there, then rehydrate your hair and then start the process all over again. If you stretch your wash day for longer than that, then actually your hair is just drying out more and more and more

D – So it’s almost like they’re symbiotic 

L – Yeah

D – That’s amazing. Nature, eh? Always gets it right. Well, that was pretty interesting. Lauren, what’s next today? 

L – Next up is our product review. So our first product under the spotlight is Curlsmith’s Curl Defining Styling Souffle. Curlsmith is a brand that seems to be absolutely everywhere. And where did you first hear about it 

D – When you just mentioned it now. No, that’s not true. I came across Curlsmith probably about 8 months ago, maybe on Instagram, and it’s a weird one because it wasn’t there, and then suddenly it was everywhere. What stuck out to me was… what do you think stuck out to me about this? Because I’m about to go get the product from my bags. I’m leaving my microphone and I’m just going to leave you

L – What I’m imagining stood out to you about it was… 

D – I’m back!!

L – Dylan, what first stood ut to you about this product? 

D – Ah, thank you, very pertinent question. What first stood out to me was the name, because Curlsmith is a brilliant name and also it evokes an artisan. It evokes a group of highly skilled people labouring over their craft like a goldsmith, like a blacksmith, like The Smiths. Johnny Marr and Morrissey. Curl defining styling souffle. That is a mouthful. Tell me a bit about it

L – So in terms of Curlsmith products, this is marketed right in the middle in terms of hold and souffle, as far as I’m aware, is a cross between a moisturizing product and a gel

D – I think that that’s a kind of important thing to know because a lot of people will use gel on its own, which can work, but it’s kind of a little bit like using varnish on its own without putting any of the prep products and the primers underneath

L – Yeah, just as an aside, do you know there’s a styling method, I don’t know if it has a name, where gel is the middle layer?

D – What? What is this heresy?

L – So you would do, what you would do is let’s say cream, then gel them mousse and then mousse becomes the outer layer and 

D – Why? 

L – I don’t know. I heard about it and I tried it, of course

D – Where did you hear about it?

L – Ohh it’ll be on Instagram. To be perfectly honest, I’m not sure how much of a difference it made. I’m not gonna say it was awful

D – Have you tried it? 

L – Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I’ve tried everything 

D – And you’ve lived

L – I’m still here

D – That’s amazing. Fortune favours the brave. OK, so let’s get back to the Curlsmith Curl Defining Souffle. First things first, let’s talk about the packaging

L – Yeah, interesting. I know we’ve got different sizes, so I got the smaller size, the travel size of which arrived in a little plastic tube. But I know that you bought the bigger size, right, which comes in a glass jar

D – Well, that’s what they would have you think. So it’s in front of me. It looks like it comes in a lovely glass jar, quite an old fashioned artisan jar that a smith has laboured over, and it’s all plastic. So that was a little bit disappointing

L – Really?

D – Yeah yeah you can have.. 

L – Ohh my goodness. I’m so surprised, I really thought that was a brown glass jar. It’s runny

D – It is runny

L – It’s runnier than mine

D – It can’t be true. So let’s talk about the usage. Obviously the usage comes with how easy are the instructions to follow on the bottle

L – Well I had one small issue. One of the things they say is to use the praying hands method, which I thought was quite interesting because before I started the blog. I don’t think I knew what that meant. I think it’s very much something that you come across when you’re kind of midway into your curly hair journey. It’s not a term that you would know just coming in. If that was the first product that you bought, I’m not sure you would know

D – What do you think that could put you off? 

L – Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. A little bit of an insider term that they’ve used there. And I think if you were coming to that. Yeah, a little bit. Yeah. I don’t think you would know what that means

D – Or conversely, it could be argued that it might push you along your journey a little bit quicker because you would probably look it up 

L – Yeah. And end up on my blog

D – And end up on your blog. And then, you know, before you know it, you’re doing mousse gel mousse. And before you know it… The praying hands method is if you put your hands together like you’re praying and then gently pull the praying hands down through the hair. Is that correct, Lauren? 

L – Yeah, absolutely. It’s smoothing technique

D – It’s a smoothing technique, yeah. So one thing that I noticed about it was on the instructions it says take a dime sized piece. A what? A dime sized piece. Now, OK, this is an American product. I understand that. But I also know you have offices in the UK. I know that you know what a 5 pence piece is. I only know what a dime is because the first client that I use this on happened to be from New York and I was like, what’s a dime? She said, oh, it’s like 5 pence piece. I was like, well, why not just use that? I mean, all right, that could be UK specific, but I think it’s a big enough market

L – Oh yeah, absolutely. Or I mean another alternative, you could just use something universal. You know you just use a pea sized amount, something like that 

D – A pea sized amount and then you wouldn’t have to change it

L – Yeah, or a cup

D – A cup of peas. Now talk to me about the results. Tell me what you found

L – I liked it, I liked that

D – How many Dimes did you use? I used $1.50. 

L – I’m trying to think of a small small vegetable

D – You’re trying to think of a small vegetable? A grape?

L – That’s a fruit

D – Do you know what banana is? 

L – As in fruit? Vegetable? 

D – Yeah

L – No, go on

D – No, no, no. You’ve gotta guess

L – Ohh. Is it one of those three? 

D – I can’t answer that. It’s a herb

L – What? 

D – It’s a herb

L – I don’t believe you. What makes it herb? 

D – I don’t know

L – What’s the definition of a herb? 

D – A banana. So yeah, tell me, tell me 

L – I probably eat about half of broccoli sized amount

D – OK, important thing we haven’t talked about the ingredients

L – Ohh 

D – That is the most important thing for the Curly Person Method

L – That’s true 


L – I think what’s really notable about ingredients is what isn’t in it actually. So I know I mentioned spoons before but it says on there free from or 0 spoons of I think is how they put it. So in a very relevant way it is CPM approved and it is free from sulfates and parabens and silicones, mineral oils, phthalates

D – I mean, these are all words that mean nothing to me But yeah, go on

L – So that’s great. I think it’s good for what it hasn’t got in it and also good for what it has. It’s got lots of really nice moisturizing ingredients in there. So as we discussed, it’s a moisturizing products and a styling gel product. So it’s got aloe Vera in it and avocado oil, flaxseed. So lots of nice ingredients to moisturize your hair

D – Anything else you notice about it? 

L – Yes, I have a small issue. Fragrance is really high up on the list of ingredients 

D – I think it’s 8

L – There we go. For all the really nice ingredients that are in the product, I just wonder if they needed to put fragrance so high up. And I do have a little bit of an issue with fragrance. It’s so strong and it really lingers as well and it smells amazing, but it is an incredibly strong smell given how natural it is. I I’m just not sure that was entirely necessary. That would be my only small gripe with it. The thing with fragrance is that legally, you don’t have to list what makes up the fragrance

D – That seems an oversight

L – Yeah, I know. Maybe that’ll change at some point

D – We could petition

L – Right, yeah

D – How did you find it? 

L – I liked it

D – So you used it on your hair? 

L – I’ve used it on my hair, yeah, I have quite a loose curl pattern and so usually I’m looking to increase the definition. That’s what I was really looking for from this product, and I found that it made a really nice cast. I would say maybe it didn’t define the curl quite as much as I would have liked. I also wonder if it might have left my hair ever so slightly greasy. How did you find the product? 

D – OK, so well, I’ve used it a few times on a few different clients, and the first time I used it, I also found it a little bit rubbery, if I’m honest. I used it on its own and I didn’t feel it had enough hydration to sit on its own on this particular hair. Now, this this particular hair was probably about a 2C. If you’re not familiar with the algebra system, 2C would be 

L – It’s wavy hair

D – Wavy

L – Wavy, just before Curly

D – Yeah. Makes sense. Yeah, yeah, OK. Which, you know, obviously a lot of people have. I thought it gave a really good hold, but I felt that this was going to be a product that was going to be better layered with something. OK, so the second time we use it, I used it on slightly curlier hair, maybe 3B. It really held well. The the curl was nice and bouncy. It was really defined. How many would you give it out of 10? 

L – I would probably give it 6

D – 6 out of 10

L – Yeah, I would say. So, like I say, maybe didn’t quite get the results that I was looking for, but I can see. And from what you’ve said as well, it sounds like it does work really well on some hair types and maybe slightly tighter curls. And also because the majority of the ingredients are really nice and you can tell that they’ve taken the time to make sure it’s a well formulated product. And I would definitely try it again. But yeah, what would you give out of 10? 

D – Well, I’d probably give it seven probably just because I’ve used it on different hair types. I’ve never had a bad result with it, but I think it’s worth saying at this point in this podcast, because curly hair is so individual and because it’s so subjective, it’s going to be very unlikely that anything gets really above 8, I would say. And it’s really important that we say at this point that we paid for this product ourselves to review. We were not given it by Curlsmith. So I think it’s worth trying. If you’ve wanted to try Curlsmith, I think it’s probably a good starting point

L – Definitely

D – OK. So what’s next? 

L – Next up, we have listeners’ questions. So these are questions that we received on Instagram and thank you so much for everyone that has sent us these questions. The first one that we have is from Delani who is currently living in the US so she says I have dry hair, what can I do as I’ve been following CGM


L – If you can explain the process of hydrating hair from washing and conditioning hair as I think many people don’t understand this and focus on styling to fix dry hair

D – Wow

L – Yeah

D – So what she’s saying is that most people, or she feels most people, focus on styling the hair to fix the hydration problem. And she’s very correctly identified that actually. Although the hydration does come into it, it starts at the cleansing

L – Yeah

D – Do you want to take this one? 

L – I mean, my first thought is something that we discussed earlier, just making sure you are cleansing it properly. I think, you know when your hair’s cleansed, I think, you know, if you’re not using something that’s enough, I think you can tell if there’s product build up on your hair. Like we said, you need to remove the products to then start the hydration process over again. Maybe even if it does mean using something that is a slightly stronger cleanser or clarifying every now and then with a sulfate shampoo just to make sure you are removing all the products because they can, as we said, they can act as a barrier and stop moisture getting in. So I think the first thing to do is to make sure that that barrier isn’t there. I would suggest using a shampoo, clarifying shampoo probably once a fortnight. Yeah definitely. I think that is really important. Otherwise you are just layering products on top of products on top of conditioning products. Like, I think that’s the main culprit, isn’t it? 

D – I think it’s important to answer Delani’s question in full to talk about what that hydration is because that’s kind of the essence of what she’s asking, really. So what would you use to get this hydration? 

L – Well, I’m very into leave-in conditioner. I think that’s a very, I think it’s a crucial step. So much so I would almost consider that part of the washing and conditioning rather than the the styling. I think it’s an easy step to miss and as Delani mentions, to go straight onto the styling. But I think having a good leave-in condition whether it be a cream or spray if you want something slightly lighter is essential to hold on to the moisture before you move on to styling products

D – I mean, I would completely agree. I use a leave-in conditioner on pretty much, I never do a client without it. When you find a good leave-in conditioner, it’s a bit like the Holy Grail of hydration. I think probably our answer Delani, would be leave-in conditioner is key and also clarifying and allowing your hair to breathe

L – OK, absolutely. Our second question is from Suzanne in Arizona and she asks. Lifting at the roots, how to get volume?

D – OK, now this is an interesting question. So this is much more in the styling. Yeah right, lifting the roots, you’re probably not going to get it if you are air-drying, you’re gonna need a diffuser. I would recommend diffusing your hair from as many angles as you possibly can. If you’re going for max volume, you can use an afro pic, yes. And you can work that at the root and you’re almost, to some extent. You’re back-combing the hair a little bit

L – Yeah, little bit

D – With an afro pick, but it’s not really. Yeah, yeah, because it’s not going to tangle because the teeth are quite far apart. I would say start with your head forward, massage from the back to the front. If you go from the front to the back, you’re gonna get phrase because the longer hairs tend to sit over the short hairs that you’ve provoked. That would be my tip

L – That’s interesting. I do something similar. So quite often after I’ve diffused, I will tip my head forwards and I will then get the regular hair dryer nozzle attachment.. Yeah, I know.. 

D – She’s bold

L – I normally keep this to myself! I would just go in with that very much just at the roots. Just keep moving it. I’m still on a low speed, low heat, you know, but I’m using a proper nozzle

D – An actual nozzle

L – An actual nozzle, the real thing, but making sure it is only at the roots. So as you said, I’m very much prepared to sacrifice definition for volume, but I do find that makes a difference and 

D – I’m assuming you obviously start the hairdryer once it’s in 

L – Yes. Right. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Put the hair dryer into your hair and then switch it on. Otherwise, yeah. Chaos

D – It’s dancing with the devil

L – I know, I know, I know

D – But you can get it, right? It works. Yeah, that’s right. So, so make sure that you send us more questions and we’ll try to answer them as best we can. Lauren, what’s next? 

L – Next up we have our one cool thing

D – OK, so these are things that we’ve just come across in the last week or so. And the things that we’ve enjoyed, things that I can be curly hair related. There might not be, but who cares? 

L – Dylan, what’s your uncle thing this week?

D – OK, my one cool thing is actually a novel. I don’t want you to fall into the trap of thinking I read a novel in a week. I just loved it

L – What’s the novel? 

D – I don’t know. It’s called Piranesi, and it’s by Susanna Clark. This is a novel about this character, Piranesi and the he lives in a world that’s just called the house, and it has different rooms and it has tides and statues depicting things. And there’s only one other person in the house called The Other. And then he starts finding messages written, and you begin to realize that all is not what you think it is, and you find this out. As Piranesi is finding out. So he’s finding out with you and it is a real delight. I mean, it is such a great book. It’s so beautifully written and it actually won the women’s prize for fiction this year. Yeah, and I really recommend it. I can’t really imagine anybody not liking it

L – That sounds fantastic. Actually. I don’t know what I was expecting, but that is not what I was expecting it to be about. I’m very intrigued

D – I think he’s got quite a sci-fi title Piranesi

L – But it’s making me think Truman Show in a good way because I love that film. Characters stuck in a world that they don’t..they don’t realize is not the normal world

D – Yeah, that’s weird it sounds like you’ve read it now

L – Ohh. You described it so well

D – So that’s Piranesi by Susanna Clarke. Lauren, what is your one cool thing this week? 

L – Wow. Well, yours is so cultured. And I can pretty much boil mine down to one word. Coffee

D – Coffee

L – Coffee

D – What’s that? 

L – Coffee. But very specifically coffee without..

D – So hang on. Your one cool thing is coffee

L – Yeah

D – Have you just discovered this? 

L – It’s very cool

D – I mean, it’s very popular, and I’ve seen people drink it. But tell me a bit more about a lot about it

L – I’ve gotta. I’ve gotta try that. It looks great. Look how happy all these people are

D – They’re all queuing up

L – I can be slightly more specific. It is coffee without syrup

D – Coffee without 

L – Coffee without syrup. It’s just one of those things you start to notice it’s a bit more autumnal now that everyone seems to want to sell you coffee with a flavoured syrup in it. And I’m, I’m sort of against it. Just want coffee. Yeah, I don’t, I don’t want coffee with the syrup

D – I’ve literally never had a coffee with syrup. And 

L – Really? 

D – No

L – Gosh, you’ve done well

D – Thank you. So when did you first discover coffee without syrup? 

L – I mean, I had coffee without syrup before I had coffee with syrup, for sure. It’s time of year. I’ll be over it again by, you know, February. It’s just because it’s autumn and I feel like people get very excited about it this time of year. A lot of people get very excited about various flavoured drinks. Do you not find this? People rushing out on the first day? OK, I’m talking about something really specific here. On the first day that it’s released I feel like people rush out to buy it. I just, it was maybe a week ago or so and suddenly there was a mass exodus of people at work. Turns out that’s what they’d gone to get. I was disappointed. I thought something exciting happened 

D – When you say a mass exodus. How many people do you work with? 

L – 5 maybe?

D – Do you live in a world where it’s a house and there’s only other one other person, one other person

L – And they went out to get a pumpkin spiced latte

D – And then you realize, oh, wasn’t what it seemed. Yeah, so coffee without syrup

L – Without syrup

D – I’m going to try it. I think that is a really cool thing. And with something so specific and something so off the radar, I’m really looking forward to next week

L – I know 

D – The mind boggles what you might come up with. So daylight. Very nice. OK, that was one cool thing. So that’s it for today, folks. Lauren, thank you so much for hosting and allowing me to be your co-host on. What do you mean you don’t brush it

L – Thank you, Dylan. It’s been an absolute pleasure. If you enjoyed today’s episode, don’t forget to like and subscribe and review it. Tell all your friends, tell strangers. And don’t forget to mention The Curly Person Method 


D – And remember, you can find us where you get all your podcasts and at selected news stands. And if you’d like to liaise with us, you can find Lauren on Instagram @lovecurlyhair_lauren, and you can find me at boy_meets_curl. And don’t forget to join us next week when we will be hunting around our podcast recording studio for a ghost. Thanks for listening